Pius XII: Saint or Sinner?

[KAK]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... nwell.html

[Jack of Hearts]

Let's review, shall we...Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII - that certainly got my attention.
But then sensational, over-the-top, tabloid style headlines and titles, are really just a marketing device.

If you read the article or book review, you'll soon come across that which goes on to explain that -
Alas, the discoveries he documents do not justify the book's sensational title.

When after all is said and done, the bottom line, (almost literally) is: - He was not Hitler's pope,

The History revealed in the book was not secret, and concluded Pius XII was neither saint nor sinner.
It's curious though that the Protestants are not brought forth to answer their involvement in the Holocaust.
Germany was a predominantly Protestant country, and the German Martin Luther was a very vocal anti-Semite. The Protestant churches not only continually preached Antisemitism, but gave vigorously support for the Nazi regime.
But no one writes about the Lutheran cooperation with Hitler - Nooooooo. Or, at that very same time, how pro-Zionist the Vatican was, and how much it contributed to actually forming the State of Israel.

BTW - Were I to choose between the two, I would say he was a saint.

[kajsa]

Germany is about 50/50 protestant and catholic now. During WWII the Catholic Church was much more for helping the Jews and others than the Protestants. That is not only Martin Luther´s fault - during his lifetime almost everybody was against the Jews and it lasted into our days.

[ronmac60]

I found Jack O Hearts post one of the most interesting I've ever read on the Jewish question during the war. It never occured to me that German Protestants were as anti-semitic as were the catholics.
It was so long ago that discussion is almost ended on the subject . However I served for a year in Germany, in the army of occupation and I frequently asked German citizens why there was such anti-semiticism in their country in those days. I think I got about 100 answers, the summation of which was that in during World War 1 very few jews voliunteered to fight for their fatherland. At wars end, I was told, in many towns and cities, the returning soldiers noticed that businesses and professions had been aquired by jews during their absense. As well, jews lived to themselves, seldom married outside their religion and exhibited strange habits of appearance and dress so unlike the accepted German way. Many people I spoke to said that the jews controlled the countries finances and they resented that fact. Personally I was shocked and saddened by such reports since, in the city where I grew up jews were a respected and important part of the social community. Those who lived on our street were among my best friends and later my collegues in my chosen profession.
As for the Pope at that time, it has been resolved that he could not have saved the jews in Rome and that he honestly believed the saving of the Vatican to be foremost in his actions. The present Pope (Ratzinger) served a year in Hitler's army but I have never read of any remarks he made about the holocaust.

[kajsa]

The Pope (Ratzinger) was drafted just as every young man. His father was very much against the Nazis and as far as I have heard Ratzinger was taken as POW by the Americans.
1914 there were about 600 000 Jews in Germany 100 000 were fighting soldiers and 12 000 died. So if the Germans told you that the Jews did not fight during WWI it is not true.
Yes Jews lived by themselves so to say mostly in Berlin and Frankfurt in Hessen. Often they were not accepted by the non Jewish population of Germany. Many of the Jews were academical educted, artists and authors and musiscians. I have no idea if they were so differently dressed than other people - some might have been.
Many of the stories told by Germans whom you interviewed were "fairytales" going around and then picked up by the Nazis.
Partly these stories still excists.
I can hardly believe that the Jews were controlling the finances in Germany. There were only about 1% Jews in Germany and they mostly lived in the big cities but also in smaller cities where certainly there were no big finances to control. Again it was one of those stories which I would call urban legends.